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Thread: Making a Murderer

  1. #11
    Administrator Klaus's Avatar
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    Yeah I am sure that will be your thoughts after you finish. Just wait until the nephews case.

  2. #12
    Cynic Jomama's Avatar
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    I just cant believe that judge fox viewed that leading interrogation of a 16yr old, clearly mentally stunted child, w/out parents or lawyer, and said that there was nothing improper about it... Just unbelievable.. How frustrating to be the defense & civil rights attorneys involved in this, and be surrounded and have deal with such widespread incompetence/negligence...

  3. #13
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    I know this may not be Mikes focus as a PO (homicide investigations), but I would love to hear his take on the LEOs behavior.

  4. #14
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    I finished this last night. I was actually only up to episode 4 as of my last post.

    I have done a complete 180 and think he is actually innocent. Here is why:

    ( Click to show/hide )
    The prosecution's case relies on the following physical evidence:

    - Bone fragments in Steve Avery's burn pit: the fact that there were also fragments found in his cousin's burn barrel and also in a quarry located several miles away means they were moved, which the defense does a very good job of arguing and getting the forensic analyst to agree with. Why would Steve Avery burn a body in his burn pit, then scatter bone fragments in 2 different places? It is much more likely that someone burned the body at a different location (probably the quarry, because that is a good place to do it to avoid line of sight), shoveled the ashes into a container, and dumped them in both Steve's burn pit and the barrel.

    - Car keys in Steve's bedroom: as Scott said already, these were so obviously planted its not even funny. That trailer had already been gone through thoroughly by the time the keys were "found", and several people were interviewed that had already searched that bedroom, including that spot, and found no keys.

    - Bullet in garage: this one is tougher than the keys to have planted, but I still think it was done. The lack of any of Teresa's DNA elsewhere in the garage (or anywhere else for that matter other than her bones) makes it hard to believe she was shot on his property at all, unless it was done while she was standing in the damn fire (which is possible... they could have thrown her in first but she would need to be standing up for the bullet to travel into the garage from there). This bullet was also found 4 months after the investigation, and they had spent a TON of time combing through that place during the investigation. Cops had her DNA from the bone fragments and could have found a bullet fragment anywhere on the property, used a bone fragment to apply her DNA, then plant it in the garage. It is actually ridiculous that the DNA testing that showed contamination from the analyst was reported as a valid result, against lab SOPs, instead of being invalidated. It is more ridiculous that this invalid result was allowed to be used as evidence in court. The statement she wrote down where the cop said to "use it to put Teresa in the garage or house" makes this even more suspicious.

    Steve's blood in car: the only way the prosecution was able to prove this wasn't planted was by doing the EDTA test, which was made up in short order. You heard the defendant's analyst say the method used had not identified a method detection level. That is HUGE. If the judge or any juror knew anything about analytical chemistry (which they probably don't) that should be enough right there to dismiss the results as inconclusive. This is because if the method detection level is very high relative to how much preservative they use in the vial, it simply will not detect it. The sensitivity of a test is critically important to understand a non-detect result. If we collected a water sample and ran a method that detects only down to 10ppb for a contaminant, but there ends up being 5 ppb of that contaminant in the water, it will provide a result of ND. What if that contaminant ends up having a health risk limit of 1ppb established (which is not uncommon these days)? That means your test just said the water is totally fine when it in fact is not. The vial of blood in the evidence case was obviously tampered with. Why else would someone tamper with it and extract some if not to use it for something?

    The fact that Teresa's blood was also in the car makes the whole prosecutions scenario of how she was killed even more unlikely. Why would Steve rape her, then shoot her, then place her in her car, then take her out, then burn her body? That makes no sense.

    Here is what I think happened. Someone stopped her car after she left Steve's, had her get out of the car, shot her, placed her back in her car, drove it (probably using gloves) to the quarry, burned the body, and dumped the bone fragments overnight. It isn't clear who did this, but the defense wasn't able to investigate that because they were not allowed to consider alternative suspects (another totally ridiculous ruling). The car was then driven to and left at the Avery yard by the killer. The cops planted the keys, blood in car, and bullet later. Being that they planted the keys, at least one of them was involved in the killing somehow or at least knew who the killer was.
    Last edited by Ender; 01-08-2016 at 04:43 PM.

  5. #15
    Administrator Klaus's Avatar
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    I agree with most of what you posted. However, the additional information that keeps coming up now is hard to ignore:

    Non blood DNA from Rav4 hood latch area.
    Brandon turned in his bleach spattered jeans he claims he wore when cleaning up garage with Avery.
    Leg irons were purchased two weeks before murder. They were presented at trial (not shown in show).
    Avery calls Teresa three times day or murder - first two he blocks with *67
    Avery is obsessed with Teresa and has answered his door with only a towel on at a previous appointment.
    Full transcript of Brandon's confession shows he was led to say a lot of stuff but there is an entire freestyle part where he explains everything with no prompting.



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  7. #17
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    Yeah the hood latch DNA is hard to believe would either be planted or be there for any other reason than being connected to the murder. It is possible he opened it for her while she was there one time to help her fix something, but unlikely.

    Was her DNA on the restraints? I would think it would be given that if you are being raped you are probably struggling a lot and get either sweat or blood on them.

  8. #18
    Administrator Klaus's Avatar
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    From the article I linked above:
    • Steven Avery had purchased handcuffs and leg irons three weeks before Teresa went missing. The state claims Brendan Dassey admitted these items were used to restrain Teresa in Steven’s trailer.

    Steven openly admitted in a Milwaukee Magazine article he did purchase these items, but he bought them to use with Jodi. And, unfortunately for the state, none of Teresa’s DNA was found on the leg irons or handcuffs, which seems very hard to believe if she really was shackled to Steven’s bed.

  9. #19
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    I see that now, thanks. I suppose they could have been easily cleaned though and if he really cleaned the garage to the point of it being spotless (which I still find hard to believe) he would have cleaned everything else.

  10. #20
    Cynic Jomama's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klaus View Post
    Just wait until the nephews case.
    Wow... just wow.. especially all the denied appeals.. the completely criminal collusion by his first appointed attorney and his investigator working on behalf of the prosecution... Just wow.. They may be guilty, but by no means did any of the prosecution prove anything to me beyond a reasonable doubt.. The Jury should be ashamed of themselves..

    This is precisely why I dont support the death penalty in all but the most absolutely clear cut federal capital/terrorism type cases...

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